tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post3741434819723553262..comments2023-08-28T06:00:59.935-05:00Comments on Oremus - Roman Rite in the Orthodox Church: Christus Surrexit!Fr. Aidanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11111565035017392104noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-741999904304922672010-05-03T14:28:08.492-05:002010-05-03T14:28:08.492-05:00Yes, Father, you are correct in this assessment. O...Yes, Father, you are correct in this assessment. One can add, and perhaps should, that in Romania the Gothic influence has found its way into Eastern rite Orthodox churches, whilst the influence of Baroque in both Russia and Ukraine are well known.Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06431501238259860462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-1607062456468642092010-05-01T14:50:57.963-05:002010-05-01T14:50:57.963-05:00One more thing I forgot to mention. I agree that C...One more thing I forgot to mention. I agree that Crusader-built churches existing in the Levant don't warrant being characterised as "Eastern style churches." However, if Eastern bishops had arranged for churches in this same style to be constructed, at their own expense, on Eastern lands, under their own omophors, the churches might be said to reflect one Eastern style among other, more dominant, Eastern styles. <br /><br />And this is what we see in the Byzantine-iconography churches in the West such as at Venice, Torcello, Cefalu, etc. Western churchmen wanted churches of this style on their own territory, for their own Western rite use. They paid the workmen, they oversaw the construction and adornment, and it was apparently felt, at that time, that this was fully appropriate for Western Rite. I can't disagree.Fr. Aidanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111565035017392104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-52486252444244320232010-05-01T14:46:20.200-05:002010-05-01T14:46:20.200-05:00Yes, the Copford freschi are truly Romanesque. I f...Yes, the Copford freschi are truly Romanesque. I feel their iconographic "language," symbolism, ethos, are consonant with 11th-c. Byzantine iconography. I'd venture to say that there is as much difference between the specifically-Russian schools of iconography and the 11-12th c. Byzantine, as there is between the Copford style and the 11-12th c. Byzantine. <br /><br />I've been in Russian churches where classically, prototpyically Greek iconography abounded. But I didn't feel as if someone had sinned against propriety. The ethos was Orthodox. In the same way, if I walk into a Western rite church and see Russian iconography, or Greek, the ethos is appropriate for Orthodox worship in whatever rite. <br /><br />I would, however, much prefer specifically Romanesque iconography in a Western rite church. And, in fact, there are plans being hatched to create just such an architectural setting for the celebration of the Sarum Use within the Russian Church. If the plans do get implemented, I will of course announce the gladsome fact on this blog.Fr. Aidanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111565035017392104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-41575590759615055072010-05-01T12:56:15.318-05:002010-05-01T12:56:15.318-05:00The Copford paintings are indeed far, far more &qu...The Copford paintings are indeed far, far more "western" than the Torcello or Monreale mosaics (Remember that Sicily was under the sovereignty of Byzantium for a very long time). Although Romanesque painting is indeed close to Byzantine, it is very distinctively different as well, and is a part of our western patrimony. There are some beautiful examples in Switzerland and Germany as well as France and Spain.<br /><br />Of course one should also never forget the very French Gothic cathedrals built in the East during the time of the crusader kingdoms (many are now mosques); although geographically in the East, I would not, perhaps, call them eastern.<br /><br />Thank you Fr. Aidan for such an informative and interesting web site.Dalenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-65033950396608463462010-04-29T00:32:41.254-05:002010-04-29T00:32:41.254-05:00I agree it would be inaccurate to characterise the...I agree it would be inaccurate to characterise these very Byzantine-looking images, even the ones with Latin inscriptions, as "THE" Western Orthodox artistic style. But is it not demonstrable that they represent a subset of the greater set "Early Western Iconography?" <br /><br />These mosaic icons are found all over. Monreale in Sicily (a Norman cathedral--one of the icons there is of Thomas a Becket!), Cefalu, etc. There are very Byzantine-looking icons in Germany in the 11th and 12th century. The fresco icons at St. Michael's, Copford, are very similar to this Byzantine style. I have now placed a thumbnail graphic of the 12th-century Copford iconography in the original post. Certainly the Copford style would be authentic for specifically Sarum liturgies. Not that there aren't a number of Western styles one might choose from.<br /><br />Christus surrexit!Fr. Aidanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111565035017392104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-12757895041747880382010-04-28T19:27:53.858-05:002010-04-28T19:27:53.858-05:00Although beautiful, the mosaic of the Resurrection...Although beautiful, the mosaic of the Resurrection from Torcello can hardly be considered as "Western." Torcello, and its surrounding islands, was very, very much in contact with the Byzantine east artistically, as was the nearby city of Venice. <br /><br />It would have been more honest to have stated that it was a Byzantine style mosaic in the west.Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06431501238259860462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-83372106817857189162010-04-17T05:09:44.373-05:002010-04-17T05:09:44.373-05:00Kristus nousi kuolleista!
Thank you so much Fathe...Kristus nousi kuolleista!<br /><br />Thank you so much Father for posting this. That sounded like stunningly beautiful. I'd love to celebrate the Lord's Paschha in that way some day.Alponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-28907237878686380382010-04-15T03:54:03.731-05:002010-04-15T03:54:03.731-05:00Thank you so very much for sharing this, Father Ai...Thank you so very much for sharing this, Father Aidan. It is splendid reading about these celebrations of the Lord's Pascha and imagining how they would appear. Next year, when you come to Britain permanently, (one can hope), I look forward to celebrating Pascha with you in this way. :-D<br /><br />I think that in the rite of Ye Greate Picknicke, we have found yet another element common to both east and west.<br /><br />Please post here when the new OSRM becomes available, and also any other liturgical materials that you hope to publish. Thank you.<br /><br />Christ is risen!<br /><br />In Him,<br />the newly-minted Subdeacon MichaelBbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10989307876421460920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7667317809584638708.post-62192351925402741722010-04-12T17:33:40.676-05:002010-04-12T17:33:40.676-05:00Resurrexit vere!
Truly He is Risen!
Воистину вос...Resurrexit vere!<br /><br />Truly He is Risen!<br /><br />Воистину воскресе!Michał Oleksyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01073195848421338608noreply@blogger.com